Horses with Benefits
May 14, 2010 by Kathy McManus
Should a horse have five weeks of vacation each year?
A new law in New York City mandates an annual five-week furlough in a pasture or paddock for the more than 200 carriage horses that trot tourists around Central Park and beyond, through heat and humidity, rain and snow. In addition to the grassy getaway, reports the New York Post, the legislation requires increased veterinary visits, blankets in cold and wet weather, and larger stalls.
“I haven’t had a vacation in a year and a half,” joked one city councilman, who voted in the overwhelming majority for “improving conditions for the horses.”
It’s not about the five-week vacation, said the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which cited its “legacy of responsibility” to carriage horses in opposing the new law. What these “noble animals” need, the ASPCA said, is a permanent vacation, replacing them with electric, horseless carriages.
Yay or neigh: Time off, or time out forever, for carriage horses?
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May 15, 2010 by Elizabeth Forel Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages
In January 2006, our organization, the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages, began the campaign to shut down the carriage industry in response to the death of Spotty, a five year old horse who was killed in a very disturbing accident. Every animal protection group in NYC favors a ban. These gentle giants do not belong in the heavy traffic of NYC, pulling around carriages, breathing in exhaust fumes. There is much to say in our argument and you may read more at http://banhdc.org/
I would like to address two issues in your article. First is the 5-week vacation for horses. This is bogus on several levels. Horses are not people!! They are herd animals who need daily turnout to pasture where they can interact with other horses, roll, buck, graze on nutritious grasses -and essentially be a horse. It is an impossibility in NYC. Even if this “vacation” were legitimate, how is it to enforced? It is not feasible for the ASPCA to make trips out of town to verify that a horse is actually resting. How do we know that the horse is not pulling plows? There is simply no way to tell. Taking the word of an industry that has routinely overcharged its customers on the street would be foolish. See NY Post article: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/taken_for_ride_TtM1wU97tnbyWZt4sCXBgO
The second thing i would like to address is what you say about a Council Member "voting in the overwhelming majority” for this bill. Of course it was an “overwhelming majority.” The bill was scheduled to be signed into law. It was a done deal. So your comment here is either disingenuous or very naïve.
Our system of government in NYC is not democratic. If you think that because you voted for your Council Member that he/she really represents you, you would be very WRONG. The only powerful member in the City Council is the Speaker. Currently it is Christine Quinn who actually represents one council district. She was elected to the position of speaker by her colleagues not by the voters of NYC. But there were a lot of back room deals going on involving the late Tom Manton, former member of the Council, Congress and head of the Queens Democratic party. Oh, did I mention that he is a stalwart friend of the carriage industry. Think Boss Tweed.
This is the way the Speaker's office operates. Too much power and power, as we all know, corrupts. I have heard from several sources that Christine Quinn has vowed not to pass any “animal” legislation in her council. This includes cats, dogs, humane education, wild animals – you name it. What kind of a person would even say something like this?
But still, we all go through the motions of contacting our Council Members about different issues, thinking that they will take a stand on it. However, if it is something that Speaker Quinn opposes – it goes no where.
The Council hearings on this bill and the vote were simply a formality. Once the idea of a bill to give the drivers a raise became a reality last year, it was a done deal that it would pass and be presented to the Mayor for his signature. If someone voted against it, they could lose their committee chairs, stipends, any clout they might have had. Their career could be on the path to ruin. Most play along not willing to risk their career.
This is the way it is in the City Council. Surely, we all remember the extension of the term limits bill ... and the slush fund scandal that miraculously disappeared.
We do not have a democratic form of government in NYC. The sooner people realize this, the sooner they will be motivated into electing the right people to office with strong democratic ideals. We have a mayoral election coming up in 2013. Who do you want to be the next mayor? Not a dictator; not another king … and not someone like Christine Quinn who has a reputation of being vindictive and bullying her colleagues into submission.
We are not quite a monarchy yet. But what we have in NYC is an authoritarian hierarchical government so we better get someone in office who plays fair.
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July 30, 2010 by Kathy
I have had horses all my life and a 5 week vacation for these horses is just a disruption in their routine. It is a change of feed since they are supposed to be put onto grass. They will spend the next 6 weeks getting back into shape. Is this fair to the horses? I do agree with a rain blanket. But if the horse is only blanketed for cold and it rains you are just making things worse. Also, most horses grow enough winter coat to keep warm. If they are not clipped they do not need blankets. All of this is some bleeding heart that is equating how a horse feels to how they feel about something. If you want to give horses some time off give them 2 days a week. They will stay in condition and not be under so much preshure. It is unfortunate that horses get killed in accidents. However, there are horses killed in riding accidents or pasture accidents too.
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October 25, 2010 by 1943carr
Kathy - couln't of said it better. very thoughtful answer and obviously horse owner. The only thing I would add it that their work day be limited to certain # of hours daily. Also maybe a schedule would be every other day off or every two days and off a day. Those streets are murder on their knees. Horses need a job and it just so happens that some are better than others. Our soldiers, policeman, firefighters get killed on the job, its part of our world. We just need to take the best care of them both humans and animals that are in our control while they are alive.
November 23, 2011 by hrslady
Kathy, finally a fellow (real) horse person posting on this issue.You are RIGHT ON! Do know that these "anti's" are more than just misguided people with their hearts in the right place. These people are animal rights activists either belonging to PETA or PETA minded. Don't let them fool you for a minute. To the person who replied to you, The horses knees are fine, they were rubber encapsulated shoes for both traction as well as cushion on pavement. Regardless of the lies that are constantly told commercial carriage horses live and work well into their late teens and even into their twenties with no ill effects from either pulling carriages or working on pavement. The very first commercial carriage horse I learned to drive on was in Indianapolis was a mare named Kate. She was 28 yrs old and 100% sound. Loved her job I might add!
May 15, 2010 by Sandy DeWitt
I don't live in New York so, obviously, I can't and will not speak regarding political realities/fantasies there.
This said, I have always loved the idea of going for a horse-drawn drive in the park.
If the animals are being mistreated or endangered and must be removed from city life, where will they go? To a farm? To the slaughterhouse? Their owners probably don't want, or can't afford, to maintain them in retirement until their eventual deaths (have you priced boarding stables or veterinary care lately?). Are there other options to their futures? Who will fund these options?
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May 17, 2010 by KIMBERLY
I don't understand what is so wrong with horses working? The carriages are on wheels- and a horse can pull 3x it's weight. I have to work for my food, my shelter, and sometimes I am sore or tired, so I get a vacation. I think the legislation is fair. I think the people that complain about horses being used for work don't know horses at all. Horses used to cross the country pulling all of our belongings over rugged terrain in terrible conditions. Things are much better for horses today with a better understanding of their feed, shoeing etc.
The people in NYC would be doing themselves harm to treat their horses badly....It's like driving your car without oil changes, or gas- it breaks down & then costs money. I don't think people struggling in business would make poor decisions based on the are of the number one thing that is making them the money- the horse. It just doesn't make sense to mistreat it.
I rescue birds from the ASPCA because the ASPCA euthanizes them within 24 hours because they just don't know how to handle birds...maybe the ASPCA needs some lessons in horse care?
I am responding because I love the 2nd response....it makes a person wonder. With all the people like PETA, ASPCA, the first responder etc- these people who try so hard to get horses off the street- do they take care to find out the horse will get a home after they are taken off their jobs? Somehow I don't think so....I think a step was taken in the right direction....monitor the business, but don't close it. These horses have a life, they haven't been neglected, abandoned, put to slaughter. Keep the businesses using horses under good management. Waste your energy making sure that happens....relax, take a carriage ride.
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July 28, 2010 by b j thomas
horse,s have been worked as long as we no i still plow and work mine and will keep it up i have taught my son,s to hope they pass it on to my grandsons SO WHAT ABOUT THAT
August 11, 2010 by T.Ritchey
That is the truth. Working horses are like any other athlete, they work and train to be in the condition to work, they love what they do, and they love the attention that they get doing the work. I dont think there are any responsible carriage /horse owners that would knowingly let any harm come to a horse that they depend on , or that depends on them. Lets chase the real bad guys and leave the good ones to do a job that is part of the proud past but better, as we train and learn more all the time.
September 12, 2010 by Reina
Hey kimberly,
Its not fair to the horses to breath fumes from the back of every car in NYC.
Would you like to breath all lthe fumes of every car in NYC would you like to be wet in the rain, snow, and pulling people and a carrige in very cold weather.
If you would do all of this then, you should go and haul people on a carrige.
November 23, 2011 by hrslady
Hey Kimblery, you are also spot on!!
Hey, "Hey Kimberly", you are delusional. If its so bad for the horses how on earth do the humans survive, or children, or small dogs? Here is an education for all of you reasonable folks posting here ( glad to see it btw) AS soon as you start hearing those "nose to tail pipe" ""breathing exhaust from tail pipes" rhetoric you can 100% guarantee you are reading the dribble of an Animal Rights Activists since its one of their all time favorite things to say,( who oddly are not "pro" animal in any way but instead want to eliminate any human/animal interaction of any kind.) Funny thing is how obvious it is they are grabbing for straws. Unless the carriage drivers in NYC are having their carriages pulled by Daschund's there is NO WAY they are living nose to tail pipe. A horses head is as high or higher than a humans, so...if the kids and small dogs being walked aren't dropping like flies, well............DUH.
November 23, 2011 by hrslady
There isn't anything wrong with a horse working. One has to wonder about these radical animal rights activists that seem to be so ruefully against anything that even sniffs of a "job" Last I checked J O B wasn't a four letter word to most of us.
May 17, 2010 by Dorothy Quate
Electrify!! By all means.
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July 27, 2010 by Carolyn Szklarz
IF carriages are banned it not only puts the horse out of work and probably into a kill auction and off to slaughter in mexico or canada. but it also puts all of the people employed by the carriage companies out of work. these horses want to work! i can see it in the eyes of the horses that i work with at a rescue in Massachusetts. The danger is the idiots in the horseless carriages who don't respect the safety of the horses, drivers or passengers. Horses were here first and built this country. Asphalt was put down to make the roads the horses walked on safer for them. Ever see a horse trip on asphalt like they do on gravel, dirt or any other uneven surface. Yes they need vacations and retirement plans. it costs a minimum of $2000.00 a year to support a healthy horse in retirement and upwards of $6000.00 a year for a sick horse. How would you like it if when you were too old or too sick to work you were told you had to be killed because no wanted you. That is in fact what this legislation is trying to change. In today's economy many horses are being given up by their owners because they can't afford them anymore. Fortunately the carriage trade purchases some of these horses. When they have to be retired there are places like Blue Star Equiculture Horse Sanctuary where they can go to live out their days and work if they want.
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May 17, 2010 by sheila
I AGREE ITS ABOUT TIME THEY DO NOT BELONG IN THE CITY THANK YOU ASPCA
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November 23, 2011 by hrslady
ASPCA is a now a corrupt organization now run by a self serving bunch of radical animal rights activists. Especially true of the ASPCA in NYC. Fired their vet (unless you want to call indefinite leave without pay something else) because she retracted a statement she was pressured into signing by them stating a horse was in pain that clearly no evidence of that was present. A more appropriate salute to the ASPCA is F U!
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May 20, 2010 by runi
The horses do not benefit from working the carriage trade. The carriage trade does not represent, or contribute to, any necessary activity. Therefore, this activity should be discontinued.
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August 7, 2010 by Sandy DeWitt
I agree it is unnecessary to take a carriage ride. Also unnecessary to go to the circus, watch a ball game, attend a movie or concert. But all these things add to our enjoyment of life. Can't we just keep some things that are "fun" to do or see? Does everything you do have a purpose?
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November 23, 2011 by hrslady
THANK YOU SANDY!
August 11, 2010 by T.Ritchey
Horses actually do benefit from the carriage trade. They are better taken care of they are at a higher level of training and health so that they can do the job. The horses enjoy there job and the attention that they get .
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November 23, 2011 by hrslady
AMEN!
June 16, 2010 by Elisha
Horses are much like people, If you take they're job away completely they may waste away. Believe it or not horses enjoy working....but not to the extent that the carriage horses in NY are asked to work. instead of a 5 week vaccation, they should give them 2 days off a week and maybe a 4 day vaccation. Reason being that they should not allow them that much time off is because the more you work an animal the better behaved they will be. By giving them a 5 week vacation they risk these animals acting up when put back to work endangering the public. If you know anything about horses you will understand that majority of them are proud to please they're master or handler. They enjoy the praise given when the job is done well, and by putting them to pasture for good you are merely allowing them to "waste away" until death. I think you should Allow these horses to continue working thus giving them a meaning to live. Yes I agree breaks but not that long
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June 18, 2010 by Barb
Yes,they need rest!!! horses are not slaves.They wear out like anything else!
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June 20, 2010 by jon
wel u have did it you have won one for the horses. but who is going to feed the horses when the carriage trade is out of buisness? you i dont think so horses are bred to work. i guess when you get youre way and horses cant be used anymore. we can gather them all up load them on a truck. and make dog food out of them. you think they can not slaughter horses any more think again. it is done everyday i know for a fact. well u have won one for the dog cheaper food. animal rights people need to grow up and join the real world.
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July 10, 2010 by Georgette
Honestly I am not sure what this world is coming to we all talk about going green, what could be greener transportation than a horse.Get rid of more of the polluting cars and get more horses.I think that most of our ancestors are rolling over in their graves at the stupidity of our world today.Does anyone realize that horses have been the main transportation of humans for centuries.Yes , I understand that not all owners are created equal some are kind and some are not, but it really doesn't make sense to mistreat an animal that you depend on to make a living. I think that the horses should be given one or two days off a week and maybe a week vacation twice a year any more than that and you would risk the animal losing it's condition making it harder for it to do it's job.Just one more example of people that know nothing about horses making rules for them! If the ASPCA bans carriages all together and the big one hits what will they do for transportation? Walk I guess . My Welsh ponies absolutely love carting and get upset when it's not their turn to go and some enjoy it better than riding, but I guess next riding will be considered cruel. Everyone in the world needs to wake up look around and get back to nature and being self sustaining, raising their own food and reducing their carbon footprint. Plus where will the out of work horses go? People and organizations that are trying to help horses should first educate themselves about the subject.
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July 27, 2010 by Linda
Are you folks out of your minds, or just have too much time on your hands? Animals should be treated humanely but when you anthropomorphize in order to make those judgements you are going to far.
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November 23, 2011 by hrslady
That's exactly what the radical animal rights activists are doing! They are the best at anthropomorphism of anyone else in the world. i.e. " Ewe, tha poor horsie is werkin in the rain, and tha cold, oh me, oh my," ( wringing hands) and the truth of it is that horses LOVE the cold! Anyone who knows horses at all also knows that they will stand out in a blizzard with their butts to the wind and ice on their back instead of going into the "nice" human built barn to get out of it. Here is a news flash for ya, THEY live OUTSIDE, in ALL kinds of weather, that is their NATURAL environment.
Horses are horses, and people are people and believe me when I tell you after having owned them for over 40 years that ANY weather extreme be it hot or cold, rain or snow, becomes unbearable for the DRIVER long before the carriage horse ever notices!
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August 7, 2010 by Sandy DeWitt
I just finished looking up "azoturia" on line. This is a condition in which the muscles of the horse cramp, causing him to "tie up". Many years ago, it was called "Monday morning disease". People would give their horses the weekend off and let them loaf in the stables instead of doing their normal day's work. When the owners came in on Monday morning, the horses were sore and had swollen legs. They found if they worked the horse moderately every day, this condition did not occur. Is this something that would happen to these working horses??
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August 8, 2010 by Chris
Part of the horses circulation is keyed to thier feet. The "Frog" part of the hoof help to pump blood up their legs with every step. Horses that are stabled will "Stack Up" Just like if a person with poor circulation who sits all day at work, their legs swell. Horse were built to keep moving. They move to graze, they move to avoid preditors, they move when at play. It's in their nature to keep moving.
The horses that pull carriages in NY city probably like what they do so long as the people who drive them and care for them keep them hydrated and well fed they are probably happy. If the animal rights people want to make sure that animals are happy they just need to monitor the working condition and make sure that they are treated well after work as well as at work. Just like any good labor union sould do.
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October 25, 2010 by MarthaV
Pretty much it is horses on a high grain ration that are prone to "Monday Morning Sickness"---work horses used to be fed quite a bit of corn to keep them built up fro working and the corn/grain ration not reduced or omitted on the weekends which caused Lactic Acid to build up in the muscles ///which brought on Azoturia
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August 8, 2010 by CK Rehkopf
If this blog is any indication of public oppinion then horses should be allowed to continue doing what they've been doing for centuries. They work for man. Unlike people they don't understand concepts. They don't think of the situation as enslavement, They don't want to make to many choices they have their way of letting us know if the job provided is not sutable. For the most part I've never met a horse, (and I've known quite a few) that want's happier when they knew they were getting to go beyond the pasture.
As for the vocation of the carriage horses, it's unfortunate that "Bussines Man" do not always act in their own best interst. It is my oppion that the business, be it in NY or Alaska, needs oversights because of the nature of the business. The main stubling block, cost of doing busines ver goss income. To often when the BM is faced with a drop in the bottom line it's his employees that pay the price. Cut cost, and work the employees longer hours are two of the BM's favorit bottom line reactions. Then the employees are animals some one needs to be paying attention. So if the animals are to keep their jobs some one needs to be paying attention to what the animals need. What they need is their own labor union.
Horses are not ideal, or lazy or shiftless. If you read Animal Farm in high school it was the horses that promoted working harder. The true nature of the horse is to have a vocation not a vacation. Routeen is not a problem for them. They like getting out and doing things so long as they are healthy. Working helps keep them healthy.
What the animal rights people need to do is educate themselves on what the true nature of the horse is and then advocate for better working conditions. What is best for the horses? A lot of people will agree that what is best is to let them have their jobs, but give them better working conditions. Isn't that what we all want. Understanding the nature of the ones we are trying to help is key to giving them what they truely want and need.
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August 11, 2010 by T.Ritchey
That is a very true statement ... We all really want what is best for the horse! Educating your self on the true effects of a well cared for horse would be in the best interest of every horse, dog , or athlete of any kind.
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November 23, 2011 by hrslady
CK, the NYC carriage horses are the most regulated and watched after carriage horses IN THE WORLD. Its the radical animal rights activists that do all they can to convince you otherwise. Did you know that the NYC ASPCA has police powers over the NYC carriage operators and have made it no secret that their agenda is to ban the carriages? Not only that, that even though they have that power, and clearly would like to see the demise of the horse drawn carriage industry in NYC they have not been able to cite even ONE driver of cruelty or neglect! Now...think about that. NYC carriage operators are doing such a good job they cant even trump something up on them. So...please, no worries, its not needed, but still appreciated that you care,
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